Tuesday, April 3, 2012

In the Material World

Trey Smith


As Baroness Radon and I have continued this discussion regarding whether or not there is a distinction between a philosophical and religious form of Taoism, I have found an ally from a surprising source: Eva Wong! Chapter 3 of her book, The Shambhala Guide to Taoism, is entitled, The Transformation of Taoism from a Philosophy into Organized Religion (20 BCE - 600 BCE).

This is NOT to suggest that, before becoming an organized religion, there were not any religious elements in the Taoist philosophic belief system. However, as I pointed out in the post, Whaddya Mean?, the crux of these elements turns on how a person defines the word, religion.

For my purposes, however, allow me to quote from Wong's book.
Although it is often said that Chang Tao-ling singlehandedly [sic] changed Taoism from philosophy to religion in the Eastern Han dynasty (25 -219 CE), this statement is exaggerated. Had the historical conditions that facilitated the transformation of Taoism from philosophy to religion not been in place, Chang Tao-ling's efforts would not have succeeded.
It would seem that Wong -- who defines herself as a religious Taoist -- accepts the notion that Taoism once was predominantly a philosophic system that later evolved into an institutionalized religion. I don't know how else to interpret this paragraph.

And what are the historical conditions that Wong cites?

They certainly are not in the mold of the Abrahamic religions! Wong does not argue that the deity or an immortal shared the secrets of the divine with a mere earthling who then imparted this knowledge to the world. No, the conditions she proffers are bound up IN this material world.

During the Warring States Period, there were a multitude of rulers and dukes fighting great wars amongst themselves. Each one was trying to gobble up as much territory as possible, many with the ultimate aim of unifying China. It was during this period that numerous philosophic schools of thought sprung up. Two notable ones were Confucianism and Taoism.

As these feudal lords jockeyed for position, itinerant philosophers from these various schools traveled about trying to convince these rulers to adopt their philosophy as a way to lead the people. So long as China remained in this state of constant turmoil, the itinerant philosopher had the potential for a job. If rejected by one lord, the philosopher could continue down the road to the next fiefdom.

As Eva Wong tells it,
The unification of China by the Ch'in dynasty brought an end to the demand for mercenary statesman and itinerant political advisers.
In other words, the disciples from these numerous philosophic schools of thought found themselves out of a job! Since everybody needs to eat, they needed to develop a mechanism to insure employment. The mechanism they created was to turn philosophy into religion!

Of course, there are more variables involved -- few things happen in history for one and only one reason -- but this happenstance served as the linchpin. It was the unification of China that changed the landscape that the philosophic "advisers" found themselves in and, as with most things in life, if you don't find a way to adapt, you die.

It should also be noted that one of the elements that exerted a lot of influence on the development of Taoism from philosophy to religion was Buddhism. The latter was taking hold in China and, in order not to be left behind in the dustbin of history, religious Taoism borrowed more than a few ideas from Buddhism.

10 comments:

  1. Do not ignore, as Eva herself has written, that Lao Tzu, the founder of the philosophy of Taoism, lived in a society that had a strong shamanic culture. There is no reason to think he (or the various writers or compilers of the TTC, as well as Chuang Tzu) did not participate in shamanic activities or practice the kind of cultivation techniques and practical medicine that are described in the Huangdi Neijing. Shamanism is about as religious and spiritual (and magical for that matter) as you can get. Also (IMHO) "the philosophy of Taoism" is not interpreted as "philosophical Taoism." Clearly we are at loggerheads on this, and further argument is not necessary. We can agree to disagree. However, once you finish Eva's book, I would also recommend Livia Kohn's "Daoism and Chinese Culture." It might move you out of the Spring and Autumn period you are stuck in, to Taoism today.

    Just for record, Eva Wong is of the Southern School; Livia Kohn is a Quanzhen practitioner. But their actual practices are remarkably similar.

    That you insist on daily interpeting the TTC (and other Taoist classics) as a socio-political, practical sort of text, and have no interest in cultivation practices, there is no need for further discussion between us of this issue.

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    1. I am not ignoring the shamanistic elements. As I have tried to explain before, I see this as a difference between small r religion (folk religion) and big R religion (the institutional form). From almost everything I've read thus far, the works of Lao Tzu and Zhuangzi fall into the former category and not the latter.

      Another point I have made -- one that you keep skimming over -- is that our different perspectives have a lot to do with the fact that you are a religious person and I am an atheist. Because of your orientation in this regard, you can't imagine a reading of anything Taoist without a religious component.

      For my part, I recognize their ARE aspects of folk religion in the Taoist thought of the Warring States period. I do not deny this. But as an atheist, I'm not interested in the later deification of this folk religion/philosophy. And, as an atheist, I think there is much non-theistic wisdom I can glean from the works of Lao Tzu and Zhuangzi.

      In addition, particularly in the case of the TTC, there IS a socio-political component to it. The disciples of Lao Tzu were trying to sell this worldview and methodology to various rulers and dukes. They desired that their philosophic school would hold sway in various fiefdoms.

      Going a step further, all religions and philosophies have a socio-political component. We live in a socio-political world and religions/philosophies try to shape that world we live in.

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  2. Many sites online divide Taoism into two* types, but of course online information is only as good as those who post it, and I don't claim to know which sites are legit or not. More confusing yet, I was running into sites that claimed there were three** or even four*** types of Taoism! The other divisions of Taoism I ran across were popular Taoism, esoteric Taoism, vitalizing Taoism, ritual Taoism, enlightenment Taoism, the Taoist Adepts, and even "Arts created by The Taoist Mind". Many of these were just different names for the same concept; obviously ritual Taoism is what we are calling religious Taoism. Perhaps this is just our tendency to analyze and subdivide everything in an attempt to understand it (another western trait?). The big question: why do we try to divide the Tao?

    *http://taoism21cen.com/Englishchat/essay19.html
    http://www.religion-religions.com/html/main_chapter.php?religion=Taoism

    **http://staff.gps.edu/montgomery/World%20Religions/Faiths/taoism/Huston%20Smith%20Notes.htm
    http://www.csuchico.edu/~cheinz/syllabi/fall99/hundoble/
    http://www.adishakti.org/forum/three_taoisms_and_their_approaches_to_te_2-25-2007.htm

    ***http://www.howtodotaoism.com/Tao-Facts.htm

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    1. For my purposes, the reason for the division is for clarification, more than anything else. What later became known as Taoism started out as a folk religion/philosophy. Later, due to a number of factors, deities and immortals were added as it became an institutionalized religion.

      As an atheist, I'm not all that interested in the later Taoism that added deities to the mix. So, I concentrate on the writings that came before this juncture and this is the form that many people label as classical or philosophical Taoism.

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    2. You are more than entitled to your position, as I am mine. However I think it is time for me to resign from my minimal role as a "scribe" here; I have little to offer and I have more fulfilling pursuits in other venues. I will continue to read (but do my best to refrain from commenting) at least until you finish the line-by-line series. That has been a useful daily discipline to revisit and refine, through contrast, my own understanding of the texts.

      Only one thing I would suggest: when confronted by proselytzing fundamentalists in the mini-mart, please do not tell them you are "a Taoist." (Maybe just say "I like Taoist philosophy; have you ever read Lao Tzu?") By self-identitfying as a Taoist, you misrepresent yourself and insult millions of practicing Taoists (who have in China won that right though great hardship and effort), from Quanzhen monks on Wundangshan and Zhengyi nuns at Maoshan, to temple-goers from Taiwan to Singapore, and countless serious practioners of the various arts (from the devotional to the medical) in America, Europe and elsewhere outside Asia.

      Thanks for your patience, Trey, and feel free to ask me any questions, but I will no longer be providing post copy for you. (Or correcting your typos.)

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    3. Baroness,
      I have always valued your opinions, but, in all honesty, you frustrate me a bit. You have very rigid definitions for a lot of things and, while you say "to each his/her own," it doesn't seem like you mean it sincerely.

      For example, you view Taoism from a very particular perspective that is impacted, in part, by your Catholic viewpoint. I understand this and accept this is the way you view it. I grant that different people coming from different backgrounds may well interpret Taoist texts in different ways.

      You, on the other hand, are not so giving. You seem to think that your way of viewing these texts is the right way and anyone who sees it otherwise is wrong! To me, this seems to fly in the face of the idea that each person must follow their own path.

      It's like saying, "You are free to follow your own path PROVIDED it looks an awful lot like mine. If not, then it's the wrong path."

      I wish you well and I thank you for all your copy editing efforts and comments over the years.

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  3. I read recently that Taoism has always been about How a wise man/woman/person can (should) live their life & How to understand the world [for Taoists that understanding is by engaging/examining the world as near as we can "from the point of view of the Tao"].

    The revealing question is how you define Life & Understanding.

    TTC Ch38:

    "... if Reason [Tao] is lost, then virtue appears.
    If virtue is lost, then benevolence appears.
    If benevolence is lost, then justice appears.
    If justice is lost, then propriety appears.
    The rules of propriety are the semblance
    of loyalty and faith,
    and the beginning of disorder."

    We are constantly reminded by Tao "Way of thinking" about beginnings/back2basics/simplicity/origins. TTC Ch 14 advises "hold on to the Reason of the Ancients". It suggests that the present moment is better understood when it is informed by respect/reverence of the past.

    I guess How you understand daily life boils down to what you are prepared to respect/have reverence for.

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    1. I don't disagree with you. It seems the points of disagreement between BR and I are 1) The manner of how that respect is stated and 2) Which past? (i.e., how far back one goes).

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    2. I think what baroness intends is that to understand the "true nature"/essence of Taoist Philosophy [philosophical Taoism] you/one need/s to respect it's origins. I do not for a moment imagine that she is expecting 'an-other' to practice Taoism in the orthodox manner she does.

      Re: 1) manner of respect --> this always depends on your "spirit of intention" (motive)
      2) past --> you must go back to the/your beginning & when your aha moment is to find yourself there & understand it for the 1st time (very different to a past/beginning that is recorded on a timeline; actually it is a past/beginning that is time-less)

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  4. Oh that is a great article Trey. I especially like the quote from Eva. It reminded me of the divine mother. I appreciate that you would share this knowledge with people like me. Thanks again.

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