This last section of the manuscript for The Book of Chen Jen is broken down into several posts. To see all the posts in chronological order, go to the Book of Chen Jen Index Page (scroll down to Section 3). For the sake of these posts, the questions posed by the interviewer, Sue-tzu, will be in bold and the answers by the author will appear as regular text.
“What matters? Nothing matters.” Why do you find this disturbing?
Well, it would seem to rob life of all meaning and purpose—not to mention morality.
But these are precisely the things which Chen Jen tells us are illusions. In harmony with what IS, there is no meaning or purpose or morality. What you call disturbing, he would say is at the very heart of total freedom.
It doesn’t matter then that someone harms another? So, I can do as I please irrespective of the consequences to others?
Of course it matters! But only in a relative sense. What Chen Jen is telling us is that ultimately nothing matters. But you cannot realize this unless you are in harmony with IS, in which case you will not do gratuitous harm to another. “Nothing matters” is not a concept which must be understood and then applied; it arises. This understanding is a consequence of a transcendent way of being. For this reason, Chen Jen would probably look askance at our discussion — this is not something which is discussed, understood and then applied. Indeed, there is nothing in Chen Jen that can be realized by such a method. This is the problem with words: they always put the cart before the horse, the concept before the reality. “Nothing matters”, as a way of being, is not something that can be understood or applied except by one who has realized that way of being.
Nevertheless, Chen Jen asks the question, “What matters?”
Yes. In fact there are three sayings which begin with that question. He is giving us the opportunity to gain insight. He is not trying to get us to apply a principle. When he merely asks a question, and provides no answer, as he does in the first saying, it behooves you to consider it carefully. Have you done so?
Well, yes ... and no, I guess. Chen Jen is a lot of work, when you get down to it. And I don’t always give him the time and contemplation he requires.
That’s not surprising. As a mere object of contemplation, we could mull over the question for a lifetime and still not reach a sure answer. But, as Chen Jen says, you have no business reading his book if you are not engaged in a transformative process. So, let me ask you: What matters, ultimately?
Well, many things matter in a relative sense . . . but ultimately I guess I can say in a theoretical sense that nothing matters. I say ‘theoretical’ because I cannot claim to have actually experienced this awareness. One exercise I tried when considering this question was asking this question: If the sun were to supernova at this moment and all the solar-system were to vaporize in a fraction of a second, would it matter?
And if it did matter, to whom?
Exactly. It would not matter because there would be no one for it to matter to.
Just as what happens today does not matter to the multitudes now dead.
And this shows the relative nature of our belief that things matter.
Yes. This belief is a completely anthropocentric and egocentric point of view. Chen Jen would have us transcend that belief.
And it is important to realize that no immorality arises from this amorality. Indeed, the life of the sage so realized, has a more palliative effect upon the world than any moral exertion.
“What matters? Nothing matters.” Why do you find this disturbing?
Well, it would seem to rob life of all meaning and purpose—not to mention morality.
But these are precisely the things which Chen Jen tells us are illusions. In harmony with what IS, there is no meaning or purpose or morality. What you call disturbing, he would say is at the very heart of total freedom.
It doesn’t matter then that someone harms another? So, I can do as I please irrespective of the consequences to others?
Of course it matters! But only in a relative sense. What Chen Jen is telling us is that ultimately nothing matters. But you cannot realize this unless you are in harmony with IS, in which case you will not do gratuitous harm to another. “Nothing matters” is not a concept which must be understood and then applied; it arises. This understanding is a consequence of a transcendent way of being. For this reason, Chen Jen would probably look askance at our discussion — this is not something which is discussed, understood and then applied. Indeed, there is nothing in Chen Jen that can be realized by such a method. This is the problem with words: they always put the cart before the horse, the concept before the reality. “Nothing matters”, as a way of being, is not something that can be understood or applied except by one who has realized that way of being.
Nevertheless, Chen Jen asks the question, “What matters?”
Yes. In fact there are three sayings which begin with that question. He is giving us the opportunity to gain insight. He is not trying to get us to apply a principle. When he merely asks a question, and provides no answer, as he does in the first saying, it behooves you to consider it carefully. Have you done so?
Well, yes ... and no, I guess. Chen Jen is a lot of work, when you get down to it. And I don’t always give him the time and contemplation he requires.
That’s not surprising. As a mere object of contemplation, we could mull over the question for a lifetime and still not reach a sure answer. But, as Chen Jen says, you have no business reading his book if you are not engaged in a transformative process. So, let me ask you: What matters, ultimately?
Well, many things matter in a relative sense . . . but ultimately I guess I can say in a theoretical sense that nothing matters. I say ‘theoretical’ because I cannot claim to have actually experienced this awareness. One exercise I tried when considering this question was asking this question: If the sun were to supernova at this moment and all the solar-system were to vaporize in a fraction of a second, would it matter?
And if it did matter, to whom?
Exactly. It would not matter because there would be no one for it to matter to.
Just as what happens today does not matter to the multitudes now dead.
And this shows the relative nature of our belief that things matter.
Yes. This belief is a completely anthropocentric and egocentric point of view. Chen Jen would have us transcend that belief.
And it is important to realize that no immorality arises from this amorality. Indeed, the life of the sage so realized, has a more palliative effect upon the world than any moral exertion.
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