If you listen to most Christians, humanity needs God. We're the ones lost in the wilderness. We're the ones who can't live a "holy" life because of our animal lusts and desires. We're the ones who tarnished the blissful Garden of Eden. We're the ones who can't know right from wrong without a divine guide. We're the ones who are imperfect and sinful.
God, on the other hand, is perfect. He doesn't need us to define what or who he is.
To this I say, BULL! This God actually needs us far more than we need him.
If he really didn't need humanity fawning all over him, then there would have been no purpose in the bible. According to most fundamentalist Christians, the bible is the inerrant word of God. In other words, he whispered in the ears of the human authors precisely what he wanted written down. And what he had them write down has EGOISM written all over it!
He purportedly tells us that a) He is the Lord God almighty; b) Salvation can only come through him; c) There can be no other Gods before him; d) People aren't allowed to make graven images of him; and e) He doesn't want you to take his name in vain.
All of these things and more are a way of saying, "Look at me. Look at me." It's the mentality of an exhibitionist -- someone who needs and craves attention. Beings that tend to want the focus on them and them alone usually have low self-esteem and define their own identities by what others think of them.
A perfect being wouldn't care one wit if people acknowledged it or not. It wouldn't need to draw attention to itself. It wouldn't necessarily alternate between threatening people with sanctions or rewarding them with goodies.
A perfect being would just be.
Sort of like Tao.
God, on the other hand, is perfect. He doesn't need us to define what or who he is.
To this I say, BULL! This God actually needs us far more than we need him.
If he really didn't need humanity fawning all over him, then there would have been no purpose in the bible. According to most fundamentalist Christians, the bible is the inerrant word of God. In other words, he whispered in the ears of the human authors precisely what he wanted written down. And what he had them write down has EGOISM written all over it!
He purportedly tells us that a) He is the Lord God almighty; b) Salvation can only come through him; c) There can be no other Gods before him; d) People aren't allowed to make graven images of him; and e) He doesn't want you to take his name in vain.
All of these things and more are a way of saying, "Look at me. Look at me." It's the mentality of an exhibitionist -- someone who needs and craves attention. Beings that tend to want the focus on them and them alone usually have low self-esteem and define their own identities by what others think of them.
A perfect being wouldn't care one wit if people acknowledged it or not. It wouldn't need to draw attention to itself. It wouldn't necessarily alternate between threatening people with sanctions or rewarding them with goodies.
A perfect being would just be.
Sort of like Tao.
Hi RT
ReplyDeleteThis post brings something to mind. My son and I differ on beliefs about God and the like. One of his points really effected me. He said that when people believe in God it gives them an "out" to not do all that one can for others as they may claim - "It's in God's hands now". I had to humbly admit that over the years I have felt that and done that - turned "it" over to God. I guess when I had done all I could in a situation I felt less guilt for 'giving up' believing God would do whatever.
It really struck me when he said that. And your post reminded me.
Love Gail
peace.....
A perfect being wouldn't care one wit if people acknowledged it or not. It wouldn't need to draw attention to itself. It wouldn't necessarily alternate between threatening people with sanctions or rewarding them with goodies.A perfect being would just be.
ReplyDeleteSort of like Tao.Actually, you are completely wrong. Now, if you add impersonal so that the quote reads, "a perfect, impersonal being wouldn't care one wit if people acknowledged it or not." then you would be correct.
See, you're kind of on to something. If God is perfect in His triune nature, then why did He even create us? Especially if He knew how bad we would be? The answer simply is because He loves us. End of story. He cares about what we do only because He (much like a parent) wants the best for us (His metaphorical children) and doesn't want us to spend an eternity in torment apart from Him.
The Christian God is personal. Tao is not. You cannot compare the actions/or inactions of the two because they have completely different natures.
With all due respect to the previous commenter, I think that the Christian theodicy is bound to collapse. I think it is fairly widely acknowledged that to live is to suffer. This would be the case even if all men were morally good, which is certainly not the case. Now, if God is a human-like person who feels human-like emotions like love, why would he create beings--whom he ostensibly loves--so that they can live out their parcel of 70 unremarkable years of misery and suffering and then die that death that they know is coming to them, especially when so much of this misery and suffering is at the hands of other men whom God could have made good if he wanted to?
ReplyDeleteUltimate reality doesn't care about us. It doesn't love us, it doesn't hate us. It just is, and when we realise we are part of It, that is enlightenment and will lift us out of the world of suffering.
I just wondered what would happen if we put all the god loving folk of all religions and sub sects in one room.
ReplyDeleteWell, yes, they'd fight. Just as they do at any opportunity.
Thanks RT for popping in on my little discussion over at TW. There we saw the same occuring "But my dad went to college and learned it all properly - so he knows for sure he's got it right"
We can only laugh :D
Tye wrote, "The answer simply is because He loves us."
ReplyDeleteThat sentence makes no sense. You can't love what you have yet to create.
It would be as if I planned to make a sandwich, but pointed at the counter I would prepare it on and said, "I love this sandwich".
Tye said "The Christian God is personal. Tao is not."
ReplyDeleteThis is the fallacy of Christianity. Its totem God is fine, as a totem. But to think the character real is an error.
Do I pray? Yes. But I am aware that the character that we have created and named God is only an anthropomorphic representation of the unknowable Tao.
With all due respect to the previous commenter, I think that the Christian theodicy is bound to collapse. I think it is fairly widely acknowledged that to live is to suffer. This would be the case even if all men were morally good, which is certainly not the case. Now, if God is a human-like person who feels human-like emotions like love, why would he create beings--whom he ostensibly loves--so that they can live out their parcel of 70 unremarkable years of misery and suffering and then die that death that they know is coming to them, especially when so much of this misery and suffering is at the hands of other men whom God could have made good if he wanted to?Hey actually God created the world perfect. The Garden of Eden remember? as i seem to recall, it was Adam and Eve who were the ones who caused humanity to have sin. And God even overrode that with His death on the cross! He died so that one day we may be able to return to a perfect, sinless state where there is no more pain and suffering.
ReplyDeleteThis is the fallacy of Christianity. Its totem God is fine, as a totem. But to think the character real is an error.Oh really? well now that you put it that way i think i'll convert. Some proof would be nice to back up your assumption.
Do I pray? Yes. But I am aware that the character that we have created and named God is only an anthropomorphic representation of the unknowable Tao.Um no point in praying to an impersonal force. no point at all. not changing you, not changing it.
btw, if Tao is unknowable, how do you even know that it exists?
"Hey actually God created the world perfect. The Garden of Eden remember?" No I don't remember. Have any empirical evidence for this having actually existed? "as i seem to recall, it was Adam and Eve who were the ones who caused humanity to have sin." Read Malebranche. Humans don't cause anything. In the Christian framework, it's God who causes everything. Including humans to "sin." "And God even overrode that with His [sic] death on the cross! He died so that one day we may be able to return to a perfect, sinless state where there is no more pain and suffering." Gee, you'd think God would find an easier and quicker way to do it. The way I see it, there's still quite a bit of suffering around here.
ReplyDelete"btw, if Tao is unknowable, how do you even know that it exists?"
Because all this exists. The Tao is not some metaphysical construct. It is what is.
Have any empirical evidence for this having actually existed?Because all this exists. The Tao is not some metaphysical construct. It is what is.Funny how close in proximity those two quotes were. got any empirical evidence for tao?
ReplyDeleteTye,
ReplyDeleteLook around you.
I could say the same to you as evidence for God. design requires a designer. an impersonal force a designer does not make
ReplyDeleteTye,
ReplyDeleteI guess the operative word here is "design". You look at the world and see a definitive design. I look at the world and see the world being.