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Monday, March 2, 2009

Even More Debris

“If you were God,” he said, “what would you want?”

“I don’t know. I barely know what I want, much less what God wants.”

“Imagine that you are omnipotent. You can do anything, create anything, be anything. As soon as you decide you want something, it becomes reality.”

I waited, knowing there was more.

He continued. “Does it make sense to think of God as wanting anything? A God would have no emotions, no fears, no desires, no curiosity, no hunger. Those are human shortcomings, not something that would be found in an omnipotent God. What then would motivate God?”

“Maybe it’s the challenge, the intellectual stimulation of creating things,” I offered.

“Omnipotence means that nothing is a challenge. And what could stimulate the mind of someone who knows everything?”

“You make it sound almost boring to be God. But I guess you’ll say boredom is a human feeling.”

“Everything that motivates living creatures is based on some weakness or flaw. Hunger motivates animals. Lust motivates animals. Fear and pain motivate animals. A God would have none of those impulses. Humans are driven by all of our animal passions plus loftier-sounding things like self-actualization and creativity and freedom and love. But God would care nothing for those things, or if he cared would already have them in unlimited quantities. None of them would be motivating.”

“So what motivates God?” I asked. “Do you have the answer to that question, or are you just yanking my chain?”

“I can conceive of only one challenge for an omnipotent being—the challenge of destroying himself.”

“You think God would want to commit suicide?” I asked.

“I’m not saying he wants anything. I’m saying it’s the only challenge.”

“I think God would prefer to exist than to not exist.”

“That’s thinking like a human, not like a God. You have a fear of death so you assume God would share your preference. But God would have no fears. Existing would be a choice. And there would be no pain of death, nor feelings of guilt or remorse or loss. Those are human feelings, not God feelings. God could simply choose to discontinue existence."

“There’s a logical problem here, according to your way of thinking,” I said. “If God knows the future, he already knows if he will choose to end his existence, and he knows if he will succeed at it, so there’s no challenge there, either.”

“Your thinking is getting clearer,” he said. “Yes, he will know the future of his own existence under normal conditions. But would his omnipotence include knowing what happens after he loses his omnipotence, or would his knowledge of the future end at that point?”

“That sounds like a thoroughly unanswerable question. I think you’ve hit a dead end,” I said.

“Maybe. But consider this. A God who knew the answer to that question would indeed know everything and have everything. For that reason he would be unmotivated to do anything or create anything. There would be no purpose to act in any way whatsoever. But a God who had one nagging question — what happens if I cease to exist? — might be motivated to find the answer in order to complete his knowledge. And having no fear and no reason to continue existing, he might try it.”

“How would we know either way?”

“We have the answer. It is our existence. The fact that we exist is proof that God is motivated to act in some way. And since only the challenge of self-destruction could interest an omnipotent God, it stands to reason that we . . .”

I interrupted the old man in midsentence and stood straight up from the rocker. It felt as if a pulse of energy ran up my spine, compressing my lungs, electrifying my skin, bringing the hairs on the back of my neck to full alert. I moved closer to the fireplace, unable to absorb its heat.

“Are you saying what I think you’re saying?” My brain was taking on too much knowledge. There was overflow and I needed to shake off the excess.

The old man looked at nothing and said, “We are God’s debris.”
This text comes from the chapter God's Motivation from the aforementioned God's Debris. As with yesterday's entry, I will hold my personal analysis for later in the day.

So what say you? Could life be God's debris?

10 comments:

  1. Again: words mean different things to different people.
    Debris is usually seen as having little or no value.
    I value certain debris: my woods are full of it. At great effort, I move it to the edges and weave it into a fine fence. A Geat Wall Of Forest, living, evolving, decaying, a medium for new life to grow in, and on.
    One might as well claim: God=Debris.
    In a way, that is what God is: God exists. So does Debris. So do I.
    If it exists, it is God, at least in part.
    If it does not exist, it is Tao.
    The two depend upon each other.

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  2. The more I disconnect from myself and connect with all things, ie, the debris, the more I become God. In other words, the more I love, the more I become God.

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  3. Nice, Jesse. You may be debris, but even so there is God inside you.
    Seeing the lack of difference is the Taoist journey.
    Words are for those who have not understood. Yet. Only a bridge to things that have no name.

    I am amused by these verification words that pose as security guards: they make almost as little sense as real words.
    But without them, our messages go nowhere.

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  4. This is an interesting mental exercise, however in the end we will always have the perspective of our own self imposed limitations. I am not sure we gain from knowing or proposing an answer.

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  5. Well there really is no answer is there?
    What I see is people knowing what they know depending on where they are at the time.
    The internet - mostly being a solo experience - often deludes people into seeing things as personal, when really the whole world is listening in.
    Whatever is said, some will see it as useful, while some will not, while others will say: "I knew that ages ago, so don't think I am stupid...".
    Forums are rife with this sort of chaos. And there's nothing to be done about it, other than to use such interactions as an excercise to become better at non-reaction.
    Maybe a bit off-topic, and for that I apologize :)

    My verification word is: "skitesse"! Wow. What a great word :)

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  6. Hi-

    I ally quite well with 'Og Mandino's writing of the "God Memorandum".... if you want to read it, just 'Google" The God Memorandum" and voila! It comes from the book, "The Greatest Miracle In The World". If I knew how to 'link' it here, I would. Sorry.

    my verification word is: casterg
    I don't believe I am God's debris. Rather, I am an opportunity by being given the gift of life to be His valued treasure and 'soldier' to the world.

    Love Gail
    peace.....

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  7. And now we are back on-topic.
    What is God, that he would "value" anyone, either way?
    What on earth would God need "soldiers" for?

    Christians, seemingly without ever noticing it, portray God as a basket-case: so weak, so needy, neurotic, petty, that it is no wonder they succeed so infrequently in convincing anyone that theirs is the One True Path.

    My God doesn't need me, my worship, my success or failure.
    It does not need anything:
    It is God.

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  8. By "value" I am saying that I have been given the 'gift of life' and life has value and is valuable. By "Soldier" I mean that I will stand for what is 'life-giving' in this world, things such as love, kindness, respect for uniqueness, non-violent, I could go on. Sadly, in forums such as this much is lost in the words - words are so subjective. I see myself as a 'soldier' when I stand up with and for those I at my work. Does God ask this of me?

    Gail
    peace.....

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  9. Gail makes an excellent point here, one that we all need to heed in most circumstances and particularly on a blog like TRT that deals with philosophical issues. We each need to be more diligent in defining what specific words mean to us since we have participants from all walks of life and a variety of belief systems.

    I know I'm guilty of this all the time. I will use a word that, for me, might indicate something entirely different to the average Jane or Joe and yet magically think that everyone else understands the gist of MY meaning.

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  10. RT,
    Your last comment here is right on target. Thank you for making that point. It was needed.

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